Buffy, Michael Sheen & MacGuffins

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Inside This Episode

Oscar-Nominated Alumni of BBC Shows

• Following their previous discussion about whether Casualty or The Bill had produced more Oscar-nominated actors, a listener called Stuart Ian Burns wrote in to point out that Doctor Who has 15 acting nominations, including Andrew Garfield, Carey Mulligan, Daniel Kaluuya, Ian McKellen, Olivia Colman and Richard E. Grant. Richard acknowledges this is impressive but notes that many appeared in Doctor Who after their Oscar nominations, unlike the Casualty and Bill alumni whose early roles were spotted by skilled casting directors.
• Marina agrees that the show needs to be a “stepping stone” – an early part of the CV rather than a high-profile gig after fame. Richard compares it to watching Prime Suspect and spotting future stars in minor roles, noting “there’s a 14 year old Danny Dyer in it” and “a young Peter Capaldi”. He praises the skill of casting directors in identifying talent early.
• Richard warmly invites listeners to continue sending him lists and crunching numbers, declaring, “that is grist to my mill.”

The Buffy Reboot Collapse

• A listener named Jen asks about Hulu’s decision not to proceed with the highly anticipated Buffy the Vampire Slayer: New Sunnydale reboot. Marina describes the original series as having run for seven seasons between 1997 and 2003 – remarking that “that would have been two seasons these days.” The reboot had assembled a formidable creative team: showrunners Nora and Lilla Zuckerman (of Poker Face fame), Oscar-winning director Chloé Zhao, and Sarah Michelle Gellar as executive producer with a cameo appearance at the very end of the pilot.
• Marina walks through the typical pathway for getting a pilot made: shopping the idea, developing a pilot script with multiple redrafts, creating a detailed series bible, shooting the pilot, and then working out scripts for the rest of the season. She emphasises how much time and money is invested at each stage – “in America, with American money at this point, millions has already been spent on this thing.” The budget for the Buffy pilot alone was reportedly around $17 million.
• Hulu sources reportedly described the pilot as “unsalvageable” and “under directed” – a description Marina calls “a mega drive-by on Chloé Zhao.” Sarah Michelle Gellar publicly identified the problem as a Hulu executive, Craig Erwich, who had never watched the original series all the way through. In a cruel twist of timing, Erwich has now left Hulu to become head of 20th Century Television – the very studio that would need to take the project elsewhere. Richard notes, “the guy who just said no to it is now in charge of: should we take this elsewhere?”
• Both hosts reflect on the broader trend of 90s IP being rebooted by directors who were fans of the originals, citing Phoebe Waller-Bridge doing Tomb Raider and J.J. Abrams rebooting Star Wars. Marina believes the project will go “on the back burner for a long time” unless they manage a major salvage job with Sarah Michelle Gellar.

Films That Left Their Mark on Everyday Language

• Listener JP Jones shares the fact that in Spain, cardigans are still called “Rebeccas” after the cardigans worn by the unnamed heroine in the 1940 film Rebecca. Richard confirms this and explores other examples of films leaving a permanent mark on everyday language.
• Richard highlights three favourites: “paparazzi” comes from a press photographer character called Paparazzo in La Dolce Vita; “bucket list” entered common usage after the 2007 Morgan Freeman and Jack Nicholson film The Bucket List; and “gaslighting” derives from the 1944 film Gaslight, originally based on a Patrick Hamilton play. Marina notes that “gaslighting” had fallen completely out of use before becoming “a massive word” in the current political era.

Zendaya and Tom Holland’s Secret Wedding

• Sophie asks how Zendaya and Tom Holland managed to get married in secret without photos leaking. Marina confirms the wedding and notes that the only person who “opened his big mouth” was Law Roach, Zendaya’s stylist, who accidentally confirmed it. Marina argues Zendaya simply can’t lose him as a stylist because “she looks incredible at all times.”
• Marina lists precedents for secret celebrity weddings: Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie, Beyoncé and Jay-Z, Margot Robbie and Tom Ackerley, Rachel Weisz and Daniel Craig, and Benedict Cumberbatch. Common tactics include taking guests’ phones, using NDAs, and keeping the event very small.
• Marina identifies a growing divide between traditional stars like Zendaya, Tom Holland and Timothée Chalamet – who treat privacy as a “USP” and a prestige quality – and influencer-class celebrities who are “always on” and share everything. She notes that Chalamet kept his relationship with Kylie Jenner effectively secret for about two years. Richard adds that unlike influencers, actors like Holland and Zendaya “can just go and do a film” to make money, so they don’t need to monetise their personal lives.

Michael Sheen Takes Over House of Games

• Multiple listeners ask about the handover of House of Games from Richard Osman to Michael Sheen. Richard says the announcement came “out of left field” but also makes sense because Sheen “has always done quizzes” and is “so personable.” Sheen is also doing significant work with the National Theatre of Wales, so had some availability.
• Marina’s first thought was hoping Sheen would do the Christmas week in character, performing impressions: “Tarrant on Monday” (having played Chris Tarrant in Quiz), “Clarkson on Tuesday” – calling him “peerless” at impressions.
• Richard reveals he lobbied for the show to be called “Michael Sheen’s Richard Osman’s House of Games” or “Richard Osman’s House of Games Featuring Michael Sheen” but was refused. The show will be called Michael Sheen’s House of Games, with Sheen’s avatar replacing Richard’s on all the prizes. Richard plans to do one final week and a handover, then Sheen will record 100 episodes for autumn broadcast. Richard says he wouldn’t appear as a contestant straight away – “you have to let someone get their feet under the table” – but would love to one day.

Top MacGuffins in Film and Television

• Listener Nereus Fry prompts a discussion of MacGuffins, inspired by the manga One Piece celebrating 600 million copies sold by having its author write down the identity of the series’ MacGuffin and send it to the bottom of the ocean. Marina explains that a MacGuffin is a term popularised by Hitchcock – though actually coined by his screenwriter Angus MacPhail – meaning an object that drives the plot but isn’t actually important to the overall narrative.
• Marina’s top three: the Dude’s rug in The Big Lebowski at number one (“genuinely an object of no value, except it really tied the room together”), the Ark of the Covenant from Raiders of the Lost Ark at number two, and Rosebud from Citizen Kane at number three. She also praises The Spanish Prisoner and the “Process” MacGuffin within it.
• Richard’s number one is the glowing suitcase in Pulp Fiction – “the most obviously a MacGuffin and made by a filmmaker who knows his film history.” He also discusses The Maltese Falcon as a classic example, Hitchcock’s military secrets in The 39 Steps, and the stolen $40,000 in Psycho. He introduces the concept of “plot coupons” (coined by sci-fi writer Nick Lowe), where a MacGuffin is split into collectible parts – such as the Horcruxes in Harry Potter or the Infinity Stones in the MCU.
• Richard also references his own writing, noting that in The Last Devil to Die, the fourth Thursday Murder Club book, he has “a box full of heroin” which he calls “an absolute 100% classic MacGuffin.” The discussion also touches on whether Private Ryan in Saving Private Ryan and Keyser Söze in The Usual Suspects qualify as MacGuffins (both hosts disagree), and the golden Eiffel Towers in The Lavender Hill Mob.

Mockbusters Bonus Episode

• The hosts trail a special bonus episode for members about “Mockbusters” – what Richard describes as a “huge sort of sub-industry” of films that directly copy big blockbuster films, formerly known as B movies. Marina cheekily corrects this to “homages.” Available at restisEntertainment.com.

Media Mentions

Films

• Rebecca (1940)
• Gaslight (1944)
• The Lavender Hill Mob (1951)
• The 39 Steps (1935)
• Psycho (1960)
• The Maltese Falcon (1941)
• Citizen Kane (1941)
• La Dolce Vita (1960)
• Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981)
• Pulp Fiction (1994)
• The Big Lebowski (1998)
• The Spanish Prisoner (1997)
• Saving Private Ryan (1998)
• The Usual Suspects (1995) – referenced via Keyser Söze
• Runaway Train (1985)
• The Bucket List (2007)
• The Godfather (1972) – referenced in relation to how the Mafia talk
• Nomadland (2020)
• Hamnet (2025)

Television Shows

• Buffy the Vampire Slayer (1997–2003)
• Buffy the Vampire Slayer: New Sunnydale (unaired pilot)
• Doctor Who
• Casualty
• The Bill
• Prime Suspect
• Richard Osman’s House of Games
• Poker Face
• Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.
• Quiz (ITV drama)
• Star Trek (franchise, referenced)
• Star Wars (franchise, referenced re: J.J. Abrams reboots)

Books and Manga

• The Last Devil to Die by Richard Osman (Thursday Murder Club Book 4)
• One Piece (manga series)
• Whisky Galore! – referenced via screenwriter Angus MacPhail

Video Games

• Tomb Raider (franchise – referenced re: Phoebe Waller-Bridge adaptation)

Fictional Works Referenced (MacGuffin Discussion)

• Harry Potter (Horcruxes)
• The Lord of the Rings (the One Ring)
• The Marvel Cinematic Universe (Infinity Stones)

Hot Takes

• On the original Buffy’s seven-season run: “That would have been two seasons these days.” – Marina
• On Joss Whedon: he is now “in the league of sort of semi-cancelled gentlemen.” – Marina
• On the Buffy reboot being a sure thing: “You would think it was the biggest shoe-in in Hollywood history.” – Richard
• On the difficulty of TV development: “If, by the way, this sounds like a pain in the ass, you are absolutely right.” – Richard
• On Hulu’s leaked verdict on the pilot: “It’s unsalvageable, it’s undershot, there’s no exposition, there’s no coverage. It’s under directed.” Marina calls this “a mega drive-by on Chloé Zhao.”
• On Craig Erwich going from rejecting Buffy at Hulu to running 20th Century Television: “The guy who just said no to it is now in charge of: should we take this elsewhere?” – Richard
• On the cost of the pilot: “The budget for this pilot was about 17 million […] 10, 15, 20 years ago you could have got away with it. You can’t get away with it now.” – Richard
• On the power of “gaslighting” as a film-derived word, Marina notes it had “fallen completely out of use and then in this political era, became a massive word.”
• On Zendaya’s stylist Law Roach accidentally confirming the wedding: “She looks incredible at all times. She simply can’t lose him over this.” – Marina
• On Timothée Chalamet: “If you’re telling me that that guy isn’t so online, I can’t believe it. That guy is extremely online and yet he managed to keep his relationship with Kylie Jenner effectively secret for about two years.” – Marina
• On celebrity privacy as a brand strategy: privacy and secrecy are now “a prestige quality” – Marina
• On Harry and Meghan: “They don’t have any actual transferable skills […] what they’re selling is themselves.” – Richard
• On hoping Michael Sheen does impressions on House of Games: “Please can you do the Christmas week […] Tarrant on Monday […] Clarkson on Tuesday” because he is “peerless” – Marina
• Richard wanted the show called “Michael Sheen’s Richard Osman’s House of Games” or “Richard Osman’s House of Games Featuring Michael Sheen” – “but they won’t have it.”
• On Meghan Markle’s jam venture, in contrast to House of Games merch: “Unlike Meghan’s Jam […] you don’t have 10 million surplus suitcases.” – Marina
• On the Big Lebowski’s rug as the ultimate MacGuffin: “Genuinely an object of no value, except it really tied the room together. I end up using that line a huge amount […] just in normal life.” – Marina
• On the Pulp Fiction suitcase: it is “the most obviously a MacGuffin and made by a filmmaker who knows his film history.” – Richard
• On whether Private Ryan is a MacGuffin: Marina’s verdict is simply “it’s disrespectful.”
• On Mockbusters: “This huge sort of sub-industry […] of films that directly copy big blockbuster films.” Marina corrects: “Homage, Richard. Homage.”

Who’s Who

• Sarah Michelle Gellar – Star of the original Buffy the Vampire Slayer; executive producer on the New Sunnydale reboot
• Chloé Zhao – Oscar-winning director (Nomadland, Hamnet); directed the Buffy reboot pilot
• Nora and Lilla Zuckerman – Showrunners and writers of the Buffy reboot; known for Poker Face
• Joss Whedon – Creator of the original Buffy the Vampire Slayer; not involved in the reboot
• Craig Erwich – Hulu executive who reportedly blocked the Buffy reboot; now head of 20th Century Television
• Daniel Kaluuya – Oscar-winning actor; appeared in Doctor Who, Casualty and The Bill
• Andrew Garfield – Oscar-nominated actor; Doctor Who alumnus
• Carey Mulligan – Oscar-nominated actor; Doctor Who alumna
• Eric Roberts – Oscar-nominated actor (Runaway Train); Doctor Who alumnus
• Felicity Jones – Oscar-nominated actor; Doctor Who alumna
• Ian McKellen – Oscar-nominated actor
• Imelda Staunton – Oscar-nominated actor
• Jim Broadbent – Oscar-winning actor
• John Cleese – Oscar-nominated actor and comedian
• John Hurt – Oscar-nominated actor (transcribed as “John Hu”)
• Olivia Colman – Oscar-winning actor
• Pauline Collins – Oscar-nominated actor
• Richard E. Grant – Oscar-nominated actor
• Sophie Okonedo – Oscar-nominated actor (transcribed as “Sophie oconaido”)
• Mare Winningham – Oscar-nominated actor (transcribed as “Mayor Winningham”)
• Danny Dyer – Actor; spotted as a 14-year-old in Prime Suspect
• Peter Capaldi – Actor; mentioned as appearing young in Prime Suspect
• Phoebe Waller-Bridge – Writer/actor; referenced as doing the Tomb Raider adaptation
• J.J. Abrams – Director; referenced for rebooting Star Wars
• Patrick Hamilton – Playwright; wrote the play Gaslight was based on
• Morgan Freeman – Actor; star of The Bucket List
• Jack Nicholson – Actor; star of The Bucket List
• Zendaya – Actor; secretly married Tom Holland
• Tom Holland – Actor; secretly married Zendaya
• Law Roach – Celebrity stylist; accidentally confirmed the Zendaya/Holland wedding
• Brad Pitt – Actor; referenced for secret wedding with Angelina Jolie
• Angelina Jolie – Actor; referenced for secret wedding
• Beyoncé – Musician; referenced for secret wedding with Jay-Z
• Jay-Z – Musician; referenced for secret wedding
• Margot Robbie – Actor; referenced for secret wedding with Tom Ackerley
• Tom Ackerley – Producer; referenced for secret wedding
• Rachel Weisz – Actor; referenced for secret wedding with Daniel Craig
• Daniel Craig – Actor; referenced for secret wedding
• Benedict Cumberbatch – Actor; referenced for secret wedding in the English countryside
• Timothée Chalamet – Actor; kept relationship with Kylie Jenner secret
• Kylie Jenner – Media personality; secret relationship with Chalamet
• Harry, Duke of Sussex – Referenced in discussion of celebrity transferable skills
• Meghan, Duchess of Sussex – Referenced in discussion of celebrity transferable skills and her jam venture
• Michael Sheen – Actor; new host of House of Games
• Chris Tarrant – TV presenter; played by Michael Sheen in Quiz
• Jeremy Clarkson – TV presenter; referenced as an impression Sheen could do
• Alfred Hitchcock – Director; popularised the term MacGuffin
• Angus MacPhail – Screenwriter; actually coined the term MacGuffin
• George Lucas – Director; offered an alternative definition of the MacGuffin
• David Mamet – Writer/director of The Spanish Prisoner
• Nick Lowe – Sci-fi writer; coined the term “plot coupons”
• Stuart Ian Burns – Listener who crunched numbers on Doctor Who Oscar alumni
• JP Jones – Listener who asked the question about Rebecca cardigans
• Nereus Fry – Listener who asked the MacGuffin question

Notable Numbers

• 15 – The number of Oscar acting nominations among Doctor Who alumni, according to listener Stuart Ian Burns
• 7 seasons – The original run of Buffy the Vampire Slayer (1997–2003)
• $17 million – The reported budget for the Buffy: New Sunnydale pilot episode
• $9 million – The current per-episode cost Richard suggests networks can now “get away with”
• $40,000 – The amount of stolen money that serves as the MacGuffin in Psycho
• 600 million – Copies of the manga One Piece sold, celebrated by sending the identity of the series’ MacGuffin to the bottom of the ocean
• 100 – The number of House of Games episodes Michael Sheen will record for the autumn series
• 1944 – The year the film Gaslight was released, from which the modern term “gaslighting” derives
• 2007 – The year The Bucket List was released, after which the phrase “bucket list” entered common usage